Mixing/Mastering On The MV-8800

[rallycapmusic]

Hey guys!

Im working in an acoustically untreated room. I want to do some semi-mixing/mastering on the MV, ya know, to put some "decent" sounding tracks on CD. Would it be better to do the mixing in headphones rather that trying to get a decent mix through my monitors in an untreated room?

[Know1]

No! Don't use your headphones to mix.
If you know what your system sounds like then your already ahead of the game. Just compare your mix to something that you feel has been mixed good.

The biggest mistake I see (hear) people make is mixing way too bass heavy. You should really be mixing flat no matter what genre of music your working with. You have to keep in mind that if you make your mix slam then the low end is going to be too excessive on a system that is already bass heavy. That brings up my next point check your mix on another system for example your car or a boom box (They do still make those, right? lol)


As far as mastering, if I were you I would avoid trying to do it. There's nothing wrong with putting a nice mixdown on CD. Chances are the so called masting suite is just going to create problems for you as well as most everybody else. Plus to be honest there isn't a real mastering engineer that is going to even touch the MV for mastering.

Most guys that are good at mastering don't do anything else. That's all they do!... That being said leave it alone. Just get a nice mix then mix it down and put it on a CD

[rallycapmusic]

I hear ya! Well I did a mix tonight, used one of the Mastering presets. I burned a cd and went out to my truck to hear that my mix sounded "flappy", Hi-Hats where extremely high and it could have stood for a bit more base after being compared to a commercial hip-hop CD. Now back in my room where I did the mix, the base sounded pretty good, hi hats/highs didn't seem that bad and it had a bit more "punch" to it.

I have the Yamaha NS50 Powered monitors. Im going to set all the switches on the back to a "flat" state. I will start using other mixes as a reference.

[NNITRED]

Chances are the so called masting suite is just going to create problems for you as well as most everybody else. Plus to be honest there isn't a real mastering engineer that is going to even touch the MV for mastering.

The MTK is there for users that know what they are doing. It's not a suite for pro engineers nor is marketed to them or as one of their tools. Even with the best tools inexperience would nullify the high quality gear/plugs used. Pro engineers also don't use modest priced nearfields or work in untuned /untreated spaces. In fact. most of the industries most celebrated MEs aren't even musicians, they're audiophiles. We have to keep things in perspective.

[Know1]

Like I said leave the mastering section alone! Just get a good mixdown. Yes you can put that on CD. You may have to turn it up a little bit to compare but you have to start somewhere. First things first.

Learn how to mix. No it is not that easy. It requires knowledge and time invested. You need to know the sound of certain frequencies and how to find them (eqing, micing). You need to know how to pan, use dynamics processors, and effects. Automation is almost certainly used.

Mixing is not a childs game, it does require skill, and not everyone can do it. It can be done on the MV but it would not be my first choice. Actually it wouldn't be my second or third choice either. However it's not terrible for mixing. I just like to have more options.

I have the Yamaha NS50 Powered monitors.

You sure you got the right model number there? I think you're talking about the HS 50's.
You might be better off picking up a bookshelf stereo with an AUX in and using that to monitor. It would probably reach a broader frequency spectrum. All you need are some 1/4" to RCA cable. I think you can get some for like ten to twenty bucks at your local music shop. If you have to go there, Guitar center has some.

[Know1]

Chances are the so called masting suite is just going to create problems for you as well as most everybody else. Plus to be honest there isn't a real mastering engineer that is going to even touch the MV for mastering.

The MTK is there for users that know what they are doing. It's not a suite for pro engineers nor is marketed to them or as one of their tools. Even with the best tools inexperience would nullify the high quality gear/plugs used.

Agreed

[rallycapmusic]

Lol! my bad for the typo, YES they are HS-50's. I think i had NS10's on the brain for some reason. I hear what you guys are saying. Maybe im so in love with the MV that I have this SILLY idea that I can "do it all" on it. I just got bored with the whole DAW thing and sorta got out of all that because I wasnt getting the "sound" I wanted out of it. I came from the era of hardware digital recorders, mixing on Mackie 32*8's and Tascam boards (inexpensive ones of course but they got the job done), lol!

So you really suggest I change my monitors?

[Know1]

So you really suggest I change my monitors?

Yes. The HS 50's are just too small. The HS 80's are nice but they are bigger. You can probably use the 50's to A/B your mix with.

[PHeMoX]

So you really suggest I change my monitors?

Yes. The HS 50's are just too small. The HS 80's are nice but they are bigger. You can probably use the 50's to A/B your mix with.

Also make sure your HS 50s are set to 'flat' on the back side when it comes to the low-cut switch.

The high trim should also be at 0, same goes for mid EQ... also at 0.

You can do some experiments with Room Control, but I think the most neutral result will be with everything at 0.

You should be able to do sóme mastering on those monitors, assuming you've got a good idea what a good mix sounds like on your monitors. As a rule of thumb, a good mixdown usually means you do not have to do anything radical within the mastering section. But in the end it's all about what will sound good.

Also, room acoustics doesn't matter when again you know what things will sound like with a properly professionally mixed CD from one of your favorite artists. Room acoustics is more important when it comes to recording vocals or samples using a mic and potentially getting in trouble with all kinds of sound bounces. Then again, a natural reverb really ain't that bad.

When it comes to mastering, you won't even notice the room acoustics, unless your room is really like 1 one 1 square feet. But even then... you're going to check your mastering with already mastered music anyways.

[PHeMoX]

You have to keep in mind that if you make your mix slam then the low end is going to be too excessive on a system that is already bass heavy. That brings up my next point check your mix on another system for example your car or a boom box (They do still make those, right? lol)

I agree entirely, I've heard a CD lately that was mastered to specifically suit a sound system in a dance club a few months ago and it's one distorted nightmare when it comes to the highs so it would best match the very bass heavy equipment.

In my opinion that's just plain wrong as well, even though it did sound good on that sound system... it will sound good only on that sound system.

I'll admit I am one of those that tends to master a bit on the bass heavy side, but it will sound better on most gear ( iPod, laptop speakers, my Edirol MA-15D monitors, Phillips sound system at a friend's place etc.). I think a flat balance where nothing is too exaggerated is the way to go.

[three_eyed_otter]

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headp ... index.html

get some these & your mixes, eq'ing, editing, & sound source selection will improve immensely...

have a good one
3Eo

[rallycapmusic]

I also have some Samson Resolve 80a's (powered) monitors that I got free with my MV that I haven't even tried yet. Not sure how much better they are compared to the Yamaha HS-50's. Like I said, the mix sounded decent in my room but when I went out to my truck to play it is sounded a little "HIGH-ISH" and could have stood for a little more bottom end. Plus it could have went for a bit more "punch".

[NNITRED]

The 80's will give you a bigger sound but to honest there is no such thing of an accurate budget monitor. The fact is that most if not all of them are just low priced bookshelf speakers with cheap amps attached to their backs. That said , they will all sound different, some will sound better, but NONE of them will be accurate. Go ahead and use your Samson's if you like. Stigma should never play a part in what you use , especially when you already own it.

You can actually do much better by grabbing older audiophile speakers with a decent amp and get much more transparent and accurate image of your music. This rings true regardless of driver config. They are also much cheaper than the today's "studio" monitors.

[PHeMoX]

Even in the higher end segment of active monitors it's very difficult to find accurate (or neutral) monitors. Most are relatively bass heavy compared to your average hi-fi set or PC speaker set.

When budget is an issue though, you can't go wrong with Edirol MA-15D. They're cheap by active monitor standards, slightly heavy on the bass as well, but they are great for mastering once you get used to them.

..and that's what matters the most. You'll need to get really used to your gear, know what sounds right on both your monitors and other sound systems. I takes a fun runs to figure it all out, especially if your sound goes through a mixer or something else in between your monitors... but the more you use the mastering, the better you'll get at it. It's an experience thing, assuming your ears are fine.

[glennfin]

In my experience, with mastering, .. "less is more"

[PHeMoX]

..because you don't hear all there actually is?

I'm sorry, but in my experience mastering with say a headphone (which is less indeed) doesn't work for exactly the opposite reason. You'll need to hear most if not all of those frequencies in a specific range where one could consider sound accurately represented if you want to be able to do a proper mastering.

I do agree that you can do a good master on less sophisticated monitors though, but you'll have to get some that cover like 80 to 90% of the frequency range that you'd need to hear. Again, this is not an attack of any kind, just my 2cts.

[glennfin]

That's not what I meant.... I was talking about the amount of processing (compression, eq, etc..) used during the mastering process, not the monitors.

..because you don't hear all there actually is?

I'm sorry, but in my experience mastering with say a headphone (which is less indeed) doesn't work for exactly the opposite reason. You'll need to hear most if not all of those frequencies in a specific range where one could consider sound accurately represented if you want to be able to do a proper mastering.

I do agree that you can do a good master on less sophisticated monitors though, but you'll have to get some that cover like 80 to 90% of the frequency range that you'd need to hear. Again, this is not an attack of any kind, just my 2cts.

[MESSIAH47]

Regardless of the speakers(monitors) you have it all comes down to numero uno,what sounds great on 1 system has a different,sound on another system. Hell I'm no novice but I'm no eXpert either what I offer as a matter of my practicing is try different levels of miXing & mastering "TAKE A SMALL BINDER COPY DOWN THE NUMBERS OF YOUR ADJUSTMENTS FOR LATER REFERENCING"especially if it sounds good to you. No one set of numbers is gonna give you the same balance every time you go to miX master or any of the before mentioned of course it would be should be used to refer a quick leveling of your instrumentation until your use to getting to a "SWEET SPOT". (All ways remember take a break after listening to music for a 1/2 hr give the ears a rest) just my 2cnts.

[PHeMoX]

That's not what I meant.... I was talking about the amount of processing (compression, eq, etc..) used during the mastering process, not the monitors.

In that case, yes, you're totally right!!

[glennfin]

That's not what I meant.... I was talking about the amount of processing (compression, eq, etc..) used during the mastering process, not the monitors.

In that case, yes, you're totally right!!

[NNITRED]

Regardless of the speakers(monitors) you have it all comes down to numero uno,what sounds great on 1 system has a different,sound on another system.

I have to differ on that based on the following. You can't adjust what is not being accurately delivered or with tiny and/or bad nearfields ,not being delivered at all. Second , you can't accurately interpret what being delivered without extensive serious experience. It's like a partially blind person trying interpret color from a B&W TV. Typically the result of artist mastering is exaggerated version of the mix.


At the very least , an artist when mixing or attempting mastering should be willing to step away from their work for several days to unsaturate their brains. You'd be surprised as to how many mistakes are blatantly audible when you re-approach your music with fresh ears.